Is it possible to establish canon in absence of official guidelines?

Luca Ripamonti

Filmmaker of 23 years old, gamer since the dawn of time. Crazy about football (the real one), basketball and pro-wrestling.

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  • Higgens

    “in the intent to convince people is not as bad as they think”

    If you have to convince people that a movie is “not as bad as they think” it is worse than YOU think. From a story standpoint the movie is a fucking convoluted mess and the characters are morons despite being top of their field, I could go on, but that would require me rewatching the movie, I wont be doing that.

    • LukeRIpa

      1) The story is implicit on purpose. Not a convoluted mess, it doesn’t explain you some stuff because there’s no need to. Not everyone is Chris Nolan that needs exposition to explain their plots.

      The only thing that is explicitly addressed is that the guys are not top of their field. Just Shaw and his husband. And someone can’t have an opinion? I mean, I get people don’t like the movie because it’s not Alien, or Aliens, it’s barely an Alien movie also, it just happen to be part of the same franchise.

      Then, everyone can have his opinion. I recognize there’s some problems, but it’s not a bad movie per se, is a decent to good movie. I know people were expecting more, though.

      2) Sorry if I took sometime to answer, didn’t get the notification.

      • Higgens

        I dont say its a bad movie, but it ISN’T a good movie, its mediocre.
        Halfish of the crew was hand picked by the 2nd of the entire company, Im sure she hand picked morons. Like I said, the very fact people feel the need to try and convince others the movie “isnt as bad as they think” means it is in fact worse than you think.
        “The only thing that is explicitly addressed is that the guys are not top of their field.”
        I will require a citation for this, the company spent a TRILLION dollars on this mission, Weyland himself is on the ship, Why would they employ ANYONE who is substandard? Oh so they can act like morons and get the owner of the company killed?

        Its fine if you enjoy it. I enjoy Lake Placid. I am not ever going to try and convince people its better than they think though. Becasue it isnt, its a B-rate monster flick. This is a B-rate space flick with a AAA budget.

        • LukeRIpa

          Weyland represents the average American Corporation. So, even if Mr. Weyland is the owner, he needs to convince the board to get fundings (which I doubt was about trillion of dollars given it’s the future, or it could be, depending on what’s the inflation). Realistically, saying ‘On this planet there’s the secret for immortality’ is stupid and there was no chance he would get budget for that. So he finds what Shaw discovered, and takes advantage of that. They needed to depart ASAP, so there you go space morons. They needed to be good enough for minimal work (aka map the thing). Shaw doesn’t handpick anyone, it’s clear from her discouragement when she presents the mission to the crew the first time. In addition, she expose that through dialogue when she talks to her husband.

          While the Weyland corporation is a theory (although makes sense since it is an American corporation), the rest is communicated through shots, acting and directing. You might not catch it, but it’s there.

          The most stupid thing in the movie is Charlize Theron’s death, but even there she never came off as smart, just as an asshole.

          Lots of people entered with the mindset of an Alien movie, when the concepts and the writing is hundreds time more complicated. I blame this on the marketing that completely failed to communicate that the movie is not an Alien movie, just takes place in the same universe.

          It’s not even a case that quite a few directors liked the movie (although Tarantino likes a lot of horrid stuff). It’s clear Ridley knows what he’s doing, but he’s doing what you don’t want him doing (including having no answer in the end, the movie builds up for that). It’s all along a producer-creator relationship throughout the movie.

          Then, again, you might not like it, but it’s better than what most people think nonetheless, since they don’t get what the movie is even about (because, again, the marketing kept the Alien vibe around).

          • Higgens

            K so, first off, Weyland is a British Company, so There is one thing you are wrong on, Secondly the movie flat out says, the mission cost 1 trillion dollars. I never said SHAW hand picked anyone, I said the 2nd of the COMPANY hand picked, halfish of the team, thats Charlize.
            Is there ANY dialogue to support that the largest, most successful company on the planet, chose, for their trillion dollar mission, less than the best in terms of crew? Pretty sure NOT, its is entirely reasonable to assume a company of that size with a mission of this scope would choose to pick the best. Not, what they could find ASAP.
            No, the writing is not complicated, its poor. The concepts are not complicated, they are convoluted.

            Again, if you have to convince people the movie is not as bad as they think, its worse than you think.

          • LukeRIpa

            “Again, if you have to convince people the movie is not as bad as they think, its worse than you think.”

            Or maybe someone that doesn’t watch the movie since forever doesn’t understand anything? Because I assure you still watch with the same mindset of the first Alien (which even a 1 year old kid could understand) and not believing is watching something more.

            Or, maybe, you just plain out didn’t understand the movie. Since those concept are there.

            And, besides, don’t clutch at straws saying it was a British company. It’s the same fucking thing. And it’s subtext, it was obvious.

            Why not handpicking the best scientist? Are you kidding? You think they would have had Mr. Weyland do what he wanted to do if everyone was so smart and had a moral?

            I mean, Alien is literally full of stupid people, yet you guys shit on Prometheus simply because it wasn’t the movie you wanted.

            That’s why Hollywood keep making the same stuff over and over again.

          • Higgens

            Struck a nerve apparently. Sorry Prometheus is a more on Par with Alien:R and Alien. I enjoyed discussing this until you tried to claim that I cant understand what makes a lame movie good. NO, its just a lame movie, sorry.

          • LukeRIpa

            You didn’t struck any nerve.

            If you’re willing to discuss, you should just stop to put assumptions over and over again. Because people then answer the same way.

            Alien is full of stupid characters. Yet people keep finding excuse like ‘they’re ignorant’. It’s not, they are surely trained for life in space (because, you know, they work there). They are just stupid. Even Ripley, but then she gets a grip.

            And, you know, I’m ok with that. Nothing need to be super intelligent.

            In Prometheus, the biologist would have died anyway, approaching that snake anyway. You know why? Because it’s his job. I may or may not agree that the way he approaches the snake was over the top, but it’s not relevant to the plot since in a way or another it would have happened anyway. Yet, everyone grips so hard on this, mostly because they don’t know what a biologist is, what he is supposed to do.

            And it’s all this kind of things. You guys don’t seem to think beyond what you see. For some movies you need to. It is the first time for an Alien movie you need to do this. And everyone did not do it.

            Prometheus has more in common with The Dark Knight in terms of storytelling than Alien. And TDK is another movie you enjoy even more if you think beyond what you see.

            However, nolan had Batman Begins as a set up, while Scott had literally mindless movie as a set up.

            Again, most filmmakers liked this movie. Critics actually appreciated it (nothing crazy good, but nothing bad either). Don’t you think that for a slightest moment you didn’t catch some stuff because you thought you watched an Alien movie, that generally requires no brain to be enjoyed?